So you have to approach the impeachment process during an election year, I think, very carefully. There are a couple of great powers and among them are China and Russia. I hope that lasts. And our soft power, which no other country even comes close to. Our ability to write the lyrics that everybody sings and reads around the world. Still, these are very prominent features of our national power.
Bethany Rodgers: I guess the one follow up question that I would have before we transition is, what was your sense of the international sentiment toward the U. Did it change over the time that you were abroad? I saw the sentiment when I worked for George W. Bush, who was widely reviled by Europe for his declarations of war in the Middle East. We were probably trading at an all time low in terms of our reputation and respect, mostly among our European partners and allies and friends who really should have stepped up and done more.
So I saw that as a low point. I see today still some concerns about the uncertainty surrounding U. The trade war with China, I mean, where even to start on that. These things are still respected and the U. We appreciate your time and we appreciate your willingness to chat with us on an embargoed basis. There had been rumors swirling for the last several weeks about first, your return to the state in general and then, secondly, the potential for another run for governor. Jon Huntsman: Well, first of all, this has always been our home.
I think this state is just getting going. I really do. Why governor? And they put great faith and trust in you as governor. They afford you great leeway to do things. Benjamin Wood: Well, you touched on a lot of topics there, some that we do want to return back to.
Bethany Rodgers: To follow up on what you just said. Jon Huntsman: You never leave. You read every day. You stay in contact? You return. And maybe not too surprising. The issues are still with us today. I look at the headline issues and a lot of them are still based upon the issues that we focused on and tried to find solutions for and in some cases found some pretty good solutions and maybe a bit of updating is required. But no, you never lose your connectivity with the great state of Utah.
Benjamin Wood: And what do you make of that whole discussion? I think you still need to pay respects to those who participate at the caucus levels, who turn out and run for state delegate. And we would fully intend as a candidate to be part of that process, to visit as many delegates as we can.
Just like we did last time. The signature gathering is something that obviously is new. And I think all candidates are going to do that. It would probably be malpractice from an insurance standpoint not to do that.
Bethany Rodgers: I wanted to ask you about the ongoing tax reform effort and the state considering a lot of options for rebalancing revenue streams. Knowing that you tried to bring down the sales tax on food, what is your perspective of this effort and in particular, the food tax? Jon Huntsman: Well, we not only tried to take it down, we did. And I think that was a very good thing. We took an old, more antiquated, system, which was a more progressive taxation system that had six tiers to it and probably a high rate of 7 percent.
But when fully loaded, probably closer to And I was compelled to move toward a flatter tax for purposes of competitiveness. And the things that took us in that direction were, for example, the outflow of brainpower. Why do we raise and educate kids here, the best and brightest, and they go somewhere else to make their dreams come true? That, to me, was not right.
And we needed more of an environment that kept people here, which is to say more opportunity. Well, more opportunity usually comes in the form of more jobs and economic pursuits. In order to get that, you had to bring in more investment.
In order to get more investment, you had to have a more attractive environment. We need to keep them here. And it was our first flat tax of its kind in the country. And as part of that overall effort, we took the rate down to just slightly below 5 percent and did a little bit of work on the sales tax, particularly the sales tax coming off of food, which I thought was a really important thing to do. It means a lot to families who in many cases can barely get by. And I do believe that we have a tax structure that when you stack it up to other states is probably in the top 10, 15 states in terms of best practices.
Sales tax is going to need, I think, a little bit of work. And therein lies the challenge. How do you deal with that diminution of revenue? How do you make up for it in a way that is fair, by broadening the base?
Any tax policy wants to begin by broadening a base and then applying a rate to that base. And you have to say, why is it shrinking and what can be done in order to broaden that base and to make sure that all the bills are paid for.
So that takes us to a tax reform today. But it has to be done in a way that really takes into account small businesses, which are the majority of job creators in the state. Some of them who can ill afford more bureaucratic efforts and higher costs. So I would love it if we could still move toward a postage stamp [tax return].
You know just an envelope, if you will, size tax return. I think that still should be our goal. And it was our goal back when we started tax reform, which was the last time taxes really were tackled in the state. I think first and foremost, as we look at the budget as I used to look at the budget, it was usually what do we do about public ed?
I think coming from the [Education] fund, as it has been, as earmarked by the Constitution, is important. But when we talk about support for education, the [weighted pupil unit] that drives funding for students is one thing. Compensation for teachers is another that really is of interest to me. And we did that for a reason. I believe that we ought to get the best and the brightest in education. And part of it is when somebody is born to be an educator, as my grandfather was, no place will make them happy outside the classroom.
But there is a compensation part of it, too. They ought to be compensated fairly and we ought to have the compensation such that it does attract people who might drift off into some other line of work because we need the best and the brightest in the classroom for the next generation of Utahns. The task force right now is thinking about applying that sales tax to gas purchases.
All of those things have been kind of ideas floating out there. Do you have a position at this point on anywhere else to go for transportation funding? Same thing. Just like on education. You become a Maricopa County. They had just overtaken Philadelphia as the fifth largest city in the country. And the disruption and cost associated with doing something late in the game as opposed to ahead of time was hurtful, I think, to their overall economy and mobility.
So transportation is something that we have to stay on the cutting edge of. We can never fall behind the growth curve as it relates to transportation, which means all options have to be on the table.
But I do think we need to look at all options for getting people around. And that includes walking, running, bikes, scooters, all forms of transportation. It includes ride-sharing that some cities and urban areas are looking at. So there are a lot of things that we can do that we ought to be looking at. Benjamin Wood: Should Utah host another Olympics?
I was also a little concerned about creating jobs that were really temporary. I was hard pressed to find any location that had hosted the Winter Olympics that actually benefited from a job creation standpoint. The jobs come and then they go, so how do you make it a sustainable effort? Moreover, most places outside of the United States and even some in the United States are able to pay for their Olympic costs and expenditures through government coffers, through travel and tourism budgets, stuff like that.
You get a luge run and, you know, slalom stuff and the giant ski jump facility. We have to maintain that, it has got to be maintained. So then you have to make a business model out of what you have.
You bring in the professional sports organizations, you weave it into a travel tourism kind of design. So those are just right off the top of my head, you know, some concerns. Now, the positives are huge. And that is there are a few things in the world like the 14 or 15 day platform that you get in terms of projecting your community, your state, your culture to the rest of the world. And I would be neutral to positive about having it again.
Bethany Rodgers: Do you believe that human activity is a significant factor in a changing climate? The question then becomes, well, what do you do about it and how can you address things like air quality and issues that become as much health related as they are pertinent to the environment? I was down meeting with some entrepreneurs just recently in Lehi, a lot of the tech entrepreneurs. So that becomes an issue that we have to really think carefully about. So we can do so much and then stuff blows our way, even from the factories of China and India.
It gets in the jetstream. So this is a global issue, truly. Benjamin Wood: I want to ask you about Medicaid and marijuana. We had two initiatives where the voters approved a particular approach. The Legislature repealed those approaches, put in their own plans and then those legislative plans suffered some defeats. Jon Huntsman: On the Medicaid front, we have to figure out how to cover families that are caught in between. That discussion will continue and should.
But I think the bigger issue is what are we doing to fix it at a local level in terms of basic costs for health care? And costs are skyrocketing double digit year over year. Pharmaceutical costs are a big part of that and insurance costs are a big part of that.
We can come up with solutions that address some of these areas for people who are falling through the cracks. And we have a big uninsured population, to be sure. And even if we wanted insurance, there is nothing we can afford. Well, that needs to be fixed. And I think we have a role to play at a local level, ultimately, in doing that. But I think there is something here that is worth pursuing.
And he talked about medical marijuana and said, how could anyone stand up and oppose something that would help those who were suffering grievous pain and a diminished quality of life.
And I tend to agree with that. Benjamin Wood: And I do want to make sure I double up on that political question, too. Is that appropriate? I think this is where a governor should stand up between the Legislature and the people who have maybe chosen to go in a different direction and to, in a sense, reconcile some of the differences.
The people feel one way, the Legislature — closer to the issues and maybe to the nuances of how the sausage is made from a public policy standpoint — feel differently.
Otherwise, you know, you have an open wound, as we seem to have today. Bethany Rodgers: I want to ask you about the issue of conversion therapy. There was a bill this last session to ban conversion therapy for underage children. And now after the failure of that bill, the governor directed an administrative process to develop rules to do the same thing.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has come out opposed to the current version of the rules as drafted and have requested either significant changes or that the issue be returned to the Legislature. In one side-by-side video comparison, the ad shows video of Romney first saying, "I believe that abortion should be safe and legal in this country," then saying, "I have consistently been pro-life. Clearly, the ad is charging Romney with flip-flopping on abortion.
So we decided to see whether the charge is accurate. Senate seat in Massachusetts and winning the governorship a few years later. Here are two of the clearest statements of his position. Edward Kennedy, Romney said, "I believe that abortion should be safe and legal in this country. Wade has been the law for 20 years, it should be sustained and supported. And I sustain and support that law and support the right of a woman to make that choice.
We believe that these two comments -- made in highly public forums and eight years apart -- represent pretty solid evidence that Romney was an abortion-rights supporter during that phase of his political career. What about his views today? It was written after he risked alienating anti-abortion activists by declining to sign a pledge offered by the Susan B. Anthony List, an anti-abortion group. I support the reversal of Roe v. Wade, because it is bad law and bad medicine. Roe was a misguided ruling that was a result of a small group of activist federal judges legislating from the bench.
I support the Hyde Amendment, which broadly bars the use of federal funds for abortions. And as president, I will support efforts to prohibit federal funding for any organization like Planned Parenthood, which primarily performs abortions or offers abortion-related services.
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